* I did the following interview with Roland in Bath, UK in September 2000, and it was updated by phone in 2001. It was published in Lexicon Magazine and with Sorted Magazine. (Please note: my article may not be publicly distributed or published either in print or on the web without my consent.)

Note: Audio portions of this actual interview with Roland are available on the  Audio & Video Interview Page

Former British duo, Roland Orzabal and Curt Smith - "Tears For Fears" - swept the charts in the '80s with mega hits such as "Shout", "Everybody Wants To Rule The World", and "Sowing The Seeds  Of Love".

Jumping on-board the early MTV video craze, the angelic-looking Smith and the pensive, contemplative personae of Orzabal (portraying flip sides of the proverbial coin) captured world-wide recognition for their brand of intelligent, introspective synth pop.

Their debut album in '83, "The Hurting" ("Mad World", "Pale Shelter") was followed up in '85 with the hugely successful, "Songs From The Big Chair" ("Shout", "Everybody Wants To Rule The World") much of it based on their then obsession with Primal Therapy. SFTBC delivered two number one hits in the USA including a bevy of awards, and the lads from Bath became the poster boys for adolescent angst.

By 1989 and the release of "The Seeds of Love", TFF had broken free from the early musical straitjacket and produced a remarkably expressive album of pivotal work (featuring the soulful talent of Oleta Adams). But the seeds of discontent between Orzabal and Smith were apparent.

Splitting up due to creative and personal differences in 1990, both pursued solo musical careers. Smith moved to America, Orzabal remained on home-turf continuing under the mantle of TFF and releasing four albums: "Tears Roll Down/Greatest Hits" ('92), "Elemental" ('93), "Raoul & The Kings Of Spain" ('95), and "Saturnine, Martial and Lunatic"  ('96).

After a five year hiatus, Orzabal is putting aside both the TFF moniker and more importantly, the TFF themes that have come to identify him with the emotional turmoil that dominated the early albums.

Launching his new CD "Tomcats Screaming Outside" (April 2/01) under his own name, Orzabal hopes to pursue the freedom to create music without the baggage of being considered an 80's retro band, leaving him open to the future possibility of writing, recording, and touring again with Smith as TFF.

In an interview in the beautiful Georgian town of Bath, UK., Orzabal discussed "Tomcats", working with Smith, MP3s on the net, and the impact of deaths in his family which contributed to the new material.

 Q: 'Tomcats Screaming Outside' - interesting title. How did you come up with it?

 A: I've been struggling to find an album title for some considerable time. Recently my wife's father collapsed and we got a phone call from the hospital at 1:30 in the morning. As she went out the door, she said, "Tomcat screaming outside." She actually said "Tomcat", but I heard it as "Tomcats screaming outside" and I thought, "hummm...that's it!" It's as simple as that. I thought it was a good title. I wanted something with an urban feel to it. It's more a title of a film or novel and not the title of a record. Once we'd done the art work and I chose the album cover, and I saw the title in a certain font, I thought, "That's good, that's another world and it's different than anything I've done before".

Q: Why have you chosen to release this CD under Roland Orzabal rather then TFF?

A: The thing is this, I was on tour last time doing "Raoul & The Kings Of Spain" in Bogota, Columbia and had had a few very, very difficult days of promotion. They were advertising the concert with songs like "Mad World" and "Change". I don't think we had a hit there since 1983. We had a lot of problems with the lights and sound, getting the whole show together, but finally when I stepped out on stage and after three or four numbers - they were going mad. At the end of the show it was just absolutely phenomenal. Yet during the encores, in my mind I said, "I've had enough of this. The whole history of Tears for Fears".

I knew I had to go away and try something else. Get away from the whole subject material, which has been pretty consistent from the beginning, try and go into different areas, and it took awhile. I wanted to take away the burden and history of "Tears For Fears". I'm not saying that in the future there won't be another "Tears For Fears" album, there quite possibly will be. I wanted for this one to take the pressure off, remove the sword of Damocles that's been over my head after every album, and just see where it goes and how it would feel to cut off from the past a little. Not worry about the commercial aspects, how many records are going to sell, and that rubbish. Just try on another suit of clothes for a while.

Q: What are the influences on "Tomcats"?

A: It's not always a conscious decision with how the album turned out. I started out with an absolute concrete vision of where I wanted to go so I started with a very different rhythm approach, with drum and bass/jungle. But the problem is, it's very hard to just go, "OK, I'm only going to do that" because something comes along or something turns up, and I ended up with something that wasn't the original plan.

Like 'Kill Love' -  the key to that song, in terms of where my mind was at the time, is where it goes; "The same old song going round and around and it's not where I'm at, it's just where I found myself, still the sounds keep the wolves from the door..." See this is the starting point for an album, where you're looking at all the stuff you have written and you kinda go, wait a minute, I'm doing a drum and bass track here, and it still sounds like me!  What do I have to do to stop sounding like me?

 Q: How have the recent tragedies that affected your life influenced "Tomcats"?

 A: It's difficult when people are dying around you. Caroline (Roland's wife) lost her mum two years ago and her dad recently, and although they aren't my parents, it does affect you big time, especially when you see what your partner is going through. We lost our gardener, a good friend of mine lost his wife - a lot of death, I'm afraid. So you see with the lyrics, "Hey Andy" -  "When I die you'll be waiting for me" -  I'm trying to gain some understanding of it.

 Q: What are your feelings regarding spirituality, mortality, religion, and life-after-death?

A: I don't subscribe to organized religion, but than I don't subscribe to disorganized religion either. Imagine turning up to the church and no one is there! Or you want to get married at three o'clock and the vicar turns up at four. Disorganized religion is much worse then organized religion.
My philosophy is quite simple. I'm pretty damn convinced about this - I believe in the survival of bodily death and survival of the personality after death. It's Pascal's Wager isn't it?

 Q: Pascal's Wager?

A: Pascal was a mathematician/philosopher, and he said, "Look, it's much better if you bet on God existing because if you bet on God existing, you'll live your life in a Godly manner. When you die and it's true, you're fine. If you die and it's not true, you're not going to know about it." But if you live your life in an ungodly manner and you're wrong...? (he laughs)

I'm going to take a gamble that there is something. The near death experience, the out-of-body experience - why is it when the brain dies that we gain consciousness, why does our view point widen? If you believe the stories that people say when they are on death's door and they rise above the body.
But it's very hard when you're at someone's funeral and your dealing with your own feelings and the feelings of people close to you, that that is true. But another way of thinking of it is if you can really look at your life and see how amazingly rich it is, you shouldn't really need to think about the next stage. Living now is enough. It actually is enough. It's a huge gift, especially relationships and a nice bottle of Chevalier Montrachet (Louis Jadot) 1990! 

Q: The first single is "Low Life" - what is the theme of the "Low Life" video?

A: It was directed by Jo Tanner and it features a naked man in a pair of dog slippers. It's about how badly he was treated and it was so bizarre a treatment that I went with it. Some people really love it and some people don't get it. It doesn't have a lot to do with the song. I said, "Do I have to be in it?" and Jo said "No", and I thought 'great', but in the end he said, "We're going to have you in the background singing", and unfortunately, there is more and more of me introduced. When you get a wacky script, it's a big risk.

Q: Do you think you would ever direct your own videos?

A: The ones where I've been most involved seemed to have worked out best. "Shout" and "Head Over Heels" were mainly my ideas, "God’s Mistake" I scripted, then got someone to make it and I love that video. And "Woman in Chains" - the boxer and the stripper - that was my idea and if you get the right guy, it can be really good!

Q: Why do you feel you work so well with Alan Griffiths, your current co-writing and producing partner?

A:  Alan is obsessed with music, and he is a bit of a librarian, the way he catalogs music, sounds. and samples. He is extremely critical about music as well - it's his whole life. And working with something like that, in terms of only working with another person, it's brilliant because your own obsessions and instincts are tested against somebody else's. Even though he may not be the absolute mother-of the-baby so to speak, from an aesthetic point of view, he is deeply concerned. And it's not like he has to be and it's not like other people I've worked with, who you know damn well at the end of the day can still go to sleep at night. Alan can't. He won't rest until he feels something is on the right track. Between the two of us, we can do most things and it's amazing.

Q: What currently is happening with you and Curt Smith? Why the decision to try writing again after ten years?

A: We've had on-going business together so I had to do something for him regarding one of his properties in America, and he sent an email saying, "Thanks, brilliant, that's excellent. Give me a call, or I'll call you". So we spoke on the phone and after that long I think we both realized that we'd grown up! So much time had elapsed that I think we both realized we were different people, big time.  We stared talking again, which was kind of a relief really,  as there were so many horrendous grudges kinda floating around. We really have gone in different ways although we are both in the music industry. We aren't tied to each other so we are going to try it out. We did a couple of weeks together in October and in L.A. in December.

It's strange cos in the 90's when I started working with Al, we'd get together and just write songs. We'd jam and it almost sounds finished while we are jamming. That wasn't how it was in the old days, writing songs was like getting blood out of a stone. Everything was so laboured and studied.

Then when I hooked up with Curt again, it was very strange not to be working in the stream-of-conscious way, which I had been doing with Al. Chris Hughes came in as a kind of go-between, to speak both our languages. We went into the studio and really tried to get something that was more commercial, something really up! We had a very frustrating time, then something broke all of a sudden and it was really, really catchy! It's been nothing like I've been doing, more like the "Seeds Of Love" period. We've got a couple of tracks, but it's a very different way of working.

I've been working with Alan as well in regards to a TFF album. Curt is in L.A. and I've been going over and working at Alan's place, all towards the same goal. Also Charlton Pettus, who Curt's been working with for years, so he's involved as well. A big family get together!

Q: Did anything preface this? Has there been any direct contact from any promoter or label for you and Curt to reform as TFF?

A: There have been a few offers, not that we've taken them up, obviously, as we wanted to see whether we were still fertile in a sense. At one point, out of the two of us, regardless of who did what, there sprung up an interesting beast.

The fact is that I've had enough with doing TFF as myself, as me. I wanted to truly be on my own, and therefore that leaves the option of "Tears For Fears":  what is it, what was it, does it have a future...we don't know. We're going to get together and see what emerges. Yes, there has been a lot of interest, but you can't live your life by those things. It has to feel right. I don't think either of us are the type of people who could actually put our prejudices aside and say, "We're going do this for the money!" We're not like that.

Q: You produced and wrote a couple songs on Emiliana's album, "Love In The Time Of Science". Are there any other projects you plan to work on in the next year or two?

A:  I get asked to help out a lot of people cos I can do that. I have the ability to work and write with other artists, but after Emiliana I did try working with another couple of female singers. I think every now and again, someone comes along and you know it's absolutely right, because they've got a magic about them, like Oleta Adams and Emiliana.

Emiliana is brilliant. Not only is she a great singer, she is just a wonderful person to be around. It's her energy. She doesn't take any shit and she is very opinionated, and quite often Alan and I would be arguing like crazy and she'd walk in and our arguments were absolutely irrelevant cos she didn't like any of it! (he laughs)

Every now and again you do get lucky and click with someone, but I never hold my breath regarding working with other people because you listen to their tape and you go, "That's really good" or "That's not good", and you meet up with them and then it either happens or it doesn't. I think in both the cases of Oleta and Emiliana, I tried to get out of both albums before I did them. I was very reluctant. But the energy is so much, you get swept up by it. You have to feel there is something core about what you are doing.

Q: Seeing that you are into astrology, before you work with someone do you ever check their chart?

A: Yes. I think first of all I have to work out if I am the best person for them. Do I have a relationship with them which is very professional and nurturing, that gives them space, but also puts pressure on them in a positive way? Cos production is easy, lots of people can do it, but it's a question of chemistry at the end of the day when you end up in a room with someone and it's their art so to speak. Astrology gives you some pointers, but you know instinctually when you meet them, if the right energy is there and enough distance and closeness.

Q: What are your views on MP3s on the internet?

A: On one level, if a track is posted here and there and a small number of people are having free access to it, it's not a big deal. It's all down to the scale of the operation. If you sell hundreds of thousands or millions of albums and a hundred people get a free download, it's not a big deal. The problem is the opportunists that are actually benefiting from it. That's the problem, that's what makes me sick. Not only are you not getting a cut of your own record, they are getting the major whack - a hundred percent, and it's theft. Theft is against the law, likewise it should be for intellectual property.

There are levels in which you become concerned. If all of a sudden your records weren't selling because people have got it anyway, than that's a big major problem. The problem I have is the con artists who honestly believe on a moral level what they are doing is right and it really isn't.

Q: How did you avoid the pitfall of drugs that seem so prevalent in the rock'n roll lifestyle?

A: I don't think it's any great secret. I think it just has do to with your constitution and what you can actually handle! (he laughs) I think if you can handle whatever you do, that's absolutely fine as long as it doesn't interfere with your everyday existence. As long as it's not habitual. Everything in small doses, just like alcohol.

Q:  Are your children interested in music and is that something you'd like them to pursue as a career?

A:  Mr. P, as we call him (Roland's son Pascal), has always had a natural ability to mimic tunes. He's got a typical pop star's mentality. He's amazing! When he was about three, I was singing along to Whitney Houston (sings in a female voice) "And I will always love you...", and he replied in exactly the same key - "And I will always love you".  And I went, "What! Do that again!" And he could repeat it so he's got much better pitch than I ever had when I was his age. He comes in the studio and he's obsessed with helping me with music, and says, "Don't worry Dad, I'll give you a hand". He's five and he gets on the keyboards, but he is extremely good at drawing so it's going be a conflict for him what he chooses to do.

Q: So there could be another Orzabal down the road making music?

A: Why not? Keep it in the family. Maybe he could look after me! (he laughs) Maybe I could manage him!

Q: What have you learned from your children?

A: They taught me that my initial beliefs, which I used to espouse during the early TFF albums, are probably not right. I think there is something that goes beyond genetics, the way these little guys are formed. Yes, it's in the genes, but it's also something to do with what's going on in your life at the time - kinda signifies the kind of child you bring into the world. Astrology would say that. So much of what is in these kids is already there, like an acorn is going to grow into an oak tree and nothing else. I do believe it's the same with these children.

Not that you can't create an unstable person just by treating them badly, of course you can, so nurture is still highly important. But given a level playing field, given circumstances that are relatively stable, predictable, and there is enough loving involved, especially in the early years, their destiny is pretty much set out, which flies in the face of much of what I believed.

Q: Since becoming a father, has there been any resolution to the acrimonious relationship you had with your own father who passed away in 1985?

A: There was a resolution through therapy and having kids of my own and becoming a father, but everyone says you inherit the ways you were raised. It's so difficult to form your own individual way of raising your children because we do revert to type under pressure.

The thing is this, my style of parenting comes directly from my mother and not from my father. Even the way I father comes from my mother. At one point, she had to play both roles. In the end, I had kids and I realized what kind of guy my father was. There was a period of reconciliation even though he was dead anyway, but I still think he was a wanker because I know how important both parents are to kids, and the tiniest bit of approval is such a massive thing for your child.  You can find that in yourself, in your own life, but it's a f****g struggle and it's a shame that you have to struggle for it and find it through your own self approval.

Q: What do you like best about what you do?

A: I was never a fame junky. I always liked the task and project of making records. When I went out on my own, I loved performing. To do great work, in my own opinion, is enough. We had a great run and even in the 1990s, it was so financially beneficial. I made more money in the 90's then I did in the 80's: better contracts, more control, more of a catalogue.

What's been good is my level of success and fame has always been controllable. Had I been as big in the 90's as I was in the 80's, on my own, it would have unleashed a monster! Most of the success has been outside the country and you can't go through a career of 20 years of making records and not go through a major blip. I feel I've been lucky to do what I do and survive and make a living. At the end of the day, your life doesn't evolve around success, but evolves around your immediate relationships and that's what makes your life extremely rich.

Q: You mentioned that you like “Blue Nile”, that the singer sounds like a cross between Peter Gabriel and Frank Sinatra. Do you like Sinatra?

A: Who doesn't like Frank Sinatra? Nat King Cole is incredible. I like crooners, I always have done. There is a whole genre of pop music that is an inheritance of all those cats. If it weren't for crooners, you wouldn't get Peter Gabriel or Sting. There is a lot of crooning going on.

Q: You're on-line so when you surf the web, what are you looking for?

A:  I mainly started using the net for stocks and shares about two years ago and really enjoyed it for a while. The whole thing got so ridiculous, I actually stopped using it. I used to look at it five, six times a day. "Oh, it's gone up 60p, quick - go and sell! blah, blah, blah!"  Now I look at train time-tables, book cinema tickets on-line, look for rare books, Cds - billions and billions of things. It's amazing!

Q: Do you visit the TFF fan sites on the net?

A: Every now and again I do. I've checked them all out. It's extremely flattering, but there is a lot of it. It takes a while!

Q: Ever had any bad experiences with fans?

A: Oh yeah, I've had stuff like that. Quite remarkable encounters because you just don't know what goes on in someone's head. Like "Seeds Of Love", there was a photographer in the pit, some German girl, and I didn't want my picture taken so I turned away in a way you can't be photographed. She ended up in the bar. Then I had a letter posted underneath the door saying, "You sing about such beautiful things, but really you're cold" - hence the song "Cold".

There are lots of different things and sometimes they are very pleasant and sometimes not very nice. There was one who was doing therapy and she was not quite there. She came across like a normal fan, but she was one of these people who, like you do a video and you're looking at the TV camera and she thinks you're looking at her, you're talking to her.

Q: Are you concerned with security?

A: No, I’m a martial artist and I live in the middle of no-where!

Q: Do you have any regrets?

A: My one regret, spending so much money. Not having saved earlier. I used to spend more than I earned and I earned a lot! I always found some way of spending, and I also regret not buying wine earlier. I store wine now. I have some great stuff and it's a great investment.

Q: You said in an interview, that the best time you ever had is when you merged with something greater then yourself. Can you elaborate?

A: It's one of those spiritual clichés to do with the loss of the ego and you can do it in many, many ways: when your having sex or when you're playing a concert or just looking up at the starlit sky, having a couple of nice drinks, and you forget that you are an individual isolated by this shell. It's the loss of the ego and it's the most stimulating, inspiring thing. It's the antidote to loneliness, which is why some people are hooked on it.

Q: What do you think of the "reality" TV shows? What programs do you watch?

A: The "Naked Chef" and I love "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire"! The suspense is incredible. But you have to see the English program cos the American one is a pale imitation. We had this program called "Pop Stars" and they're a big success story. They've already performed on the Brit Awards.

I enjoy "Big Brother", but in terms of "Big Brother", I don't like the one-upsmanship. I like competing, but I can't stand that stuff. These shows are very much a sign of the times. It's very much about social interaction. We've moved very much away from the perspective of the individual. What's important is they way the group interacts and what we're being sold is that everyone is exactly the same.

Q: I've heard that you won a music contest when you were 11 years old with one of your own songs?

A: I came second and it broke my heart! (he laughs) We were in a caravan park, one of the few vacations we ever had and I wrote my own songs, and had a guitar and I sang it, but I was absolutely so nervous, so nervous...I think the girl that won just sang, 'On the Good Ship Lollypop', and it sickened me! I was gutted!

Q: How about a few irreverent questions? Would you rather have 10 more points of IQ or ten more pounds of muscle?

A: 10 more points of IQ cos 10 more pounds of muscle is easy, so easy. Especially if you have a history of working out.

Q: Fame or fortune?

A: Fortune! (he laughs) Without question!

Q: Dogs or cats?

A: Cats, they're more independent.

Q: The book or the movie?

A: That's a tough one...The movie if it's "Being John Malkovich". It's become my favorite movie.

Q: If someone found a portal into your brain such as in "Being John Malkovich", what would they find?

A: The thing with your brain is it changes so much according to your concerns. It has so many levels and so many rooms that there is a large part of my brain that is no different then anyone else's. Trust me!

Q: Death or dishonor?

A: Dishonor! (he laughs) Absolutely!

Q: Laugh with the sinners or cry with the saints?

A: Laugh with the sinners.

Q: Day or night?

A: Night. It's less obvious. You go more crazy at night. During the day you're sober and together and at night you have the most wonderful experiences and slowly wake up to sobriety...or not! (he laughs)

Q: Blind or deaf?

A: Pardon? Pardon? Deaf. You can still hear without ears. Most songs you write are in your head. You can certainly learn to lip-read. But without sight, that's a real disability.

Q: Good girls or bad girls?

A: Oh god, I can't answer that. Bad girls cos they are more fun probably.

Q: Incontinence or Tourettes?

A:  F**k, I don't know! Tourette's. You could get away with murder!

Q: Invisibility or super-strength?

A: Invisibility without a doubt! Oh, yeah! Doesn't take much of a mind to imagine what the hell you could get up to!

Q: Starve to death or cannibal?

A: Cannibal. No problem.

Q: What is the weirdest thing ever tossed on stage?

A: A stunning blonde babe in a gold lame dress - tossed on by herself in Las Vegas!